Taican
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Post by Taican on Feb 10, 2008 10:36:14 GMT -6
I have the most experience in it, so it makes more sense to me. I'm sure if I played first edition more, it'd start to make more sense.
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Post by kerap on Feb 29, 2008 11:10:18 GMT -6
I learned on the Basic edition, which was quickly followed by the 1st Edition. I've played all editions, and tend to like 1st the best. It was a bit simpler and had far less rules and dice rolling than 3/3.5 edition. Each edition has something good and something not so good.
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Lortan
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Post by Lortan on Mar 1, 2008 11:15:11 GMT -6
I wish I could have experience in more editions of D&D than 3.5 freeform and 2e. Maybe I'll look at the games on your site Kerap, and see what editions have games that are recruiting.
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Post by norrif on Mar 1, 2008 13:21:42 GMT -6
I learnt with basic, I was old enough to remember that when it first came out!!
But a lot of my table top gaming was done with 2ed as that was when we formed our real serious group and I have many happy memories playing. Our group broke up and I stopped playing for what must be 15 to 20 years! I eventually got back into the game when I surfed the net and found a PBMB site that was running a game. I submitted a character and was accepted into the game. That was were I first `met` Kerap and we have been friends for about the last five years. However I was totally confused with the 3ed rule books and still struggle now! Maybe its my old age not allowing my brain to accept a new set of rules! So suffice to say my favourite edition is 2ed!
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Post by kerap on Mar 5, 2008 12:18:00 GMT -6
Yeah that's rather amusing when we think about it. Old Norrif and I got back into the hobby by finding a PBMB game and have been playing by that medium ever since.
I'm like Norrif in that I can't get a grip on the 3/3.5 Edition rules - so much dice rolling. It's not that I'm against or don't like 3/3.5 Edition - it's just that it takes some retraining on my part. And at my age...well...it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
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schu
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Post by schu on Sept 22, 2008 20:08:15 GMT -6
Take ideas from anywhere, build them into the system, and have fun. But this wand of magic missels shoots 1 bolt of 1d12 damage and can not be recharged.
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Post by kingsilverleaf on Aug 11, 2009 12:06:21 GMT -6
i've got a large library of 2nd addition and i've always liked it i would like to try spell jamming but don't have a dm any more
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Post by The Vampire Muffin Man on Aug 4, 2010 2:36:39 GMT -6
2nd Edition... What else can I say? Have all the real books somewhere (actually, I do know where they all are), but right now I'm working off e-books.
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Niemz
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Post by Niemz on Aug 14, 2010 23:35:57 GMT -6
I need to remake this poll and add 4th Edition...
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Post by drednot57 on Jan 17, 2011 11:59:40 GMT -6
I like both 1st and 2nd eds equally, but I'll give 1E a slight edge as it's the version that allows the DM the most flexibility in adjudicating in game situations. Later versions, especially 3rd and 4th eds take away most, and with the upcoming 5th ed, all of the DM's responsibilities. Yes, 5th ed. is on the way and there will only players (online) as the DM's role will be totally computerized. You think 4E was a complete bastardization of D&D, you ain't seen nothin' yet!
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mathus
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Post by mathus on Jan 17, 2011 17:16:57 GMT -6
...later versions, especially 3rd and 4th eds take away most, and with the upcoming 5th ed, all of the DM's responsibilities. Yes, 5th ed. is on the way and there will only players (online) as the DM's role will be totally computerized. You think 4E was a complete bastardization of D&D, you ain't seen nothin' yet! Dude, put down the LSD and back away slowly. There will not be a computer DM until the day they create artificial intelligence. Right now a computer can barely play Jeopardy. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_(artificial_intelligence_software)Although that would be kind of cool. A room full of instant players and DM. All the missed nights because someone's car broke down, a player gets called into work, there is a blizzard out. Whatever, just fire up the virtual D&D gaming session. But back to your original argument. First off, 5th Edition is not ruled out but right now Wizards is in the middle of the Essentials line and that will run for 1-2 more years. The Essentials line is more a 4.1 than anything else. They didn't change any core rules but added some simplicity to the game to try and get more players. And even when/if they do a 5th edition release in the year 2014 it will be par for the course. They release a new Edition every 5-10 years. (4th Edition was released in 2008.) The 10 year gaps are usually because the company was barely hanging on. If they do not release fresh new product, people stop buying. Then the company doesn't make money and they either go bankrupt or get bought out. That is what happened to 2nd Edition. And once more to point out the ridiculous notion that D&D would all be online run by a computer. D&D and ALL role-playing be it Munchkin, Kalamar, White Wolf, Call of Cthulhu, or even Big Eyes, Small Mouth (a RPG based off of Japanese Anime) you will ALWAYS need a human game master. A computer cannot adjudicate someone's imagination. And one last note that I have tried to fight over and over on this board. Why can't we all get along? You think the rule-set determines if it is role-playing or not? There are hundreds of rule-sets out there. And calling 3rd, 4th, or the unknown 5th, edition of D&D a bastardization? Wake up, smell the present. 2nd edition "support" died over a decade ago. I am not telling you to stop playing or enjoying to play 2nd edition, but really your vitriolic against further editions is just childish and makes you come off as a crotchety old-ass. Stop waving your monster manual at the kids walking across your lawn.
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Post by drednot57 on Jan 18, 2011 10:16:37 GMT -6
...later versions, especially 3rd and 4th eds take away most, and with the upcoming 5th ed, all of the DM's responsibilities. Yes, 5th ed. is on the way and there will only players (online) as the DM's role will be totally computerized. You think 4E was a complete bastardization of D&D, you ain't seen nothin' yet! Dude, put down the LSD and back away slowly. There will not be a computer DM until the day they create artificial intelligence. Right now a computer can barely play Jeopardy. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_(artificial_intelligence_software)Although that would be kind of cool. A room full of instant players and DM. All the missed nights because someone's car broke down, a player gets called into work, there is a blizzard out. Whatever, just fire up the virtual D&D gaming session. But back to your original argument. First off, 5th Edition is not ruled out but right now Wizards is in the middle of the Essentials line and that will run for 1-2 more years. The Essentials line is more a 4.1 than anything else. They didn't change any core rules but added some simplicity to the game to try and get more players. And even when/if they do a 5th edition release in the year 2014 it will be par for the course. They release a new Edition every 5-10 years. (4th Edition was released in 2008.) The 10 year gaps are usually because the company was barely hanging on. If they do not release fresh new product, people stop buying. Then the company doesn't make money and they either go bankrupt or get bought out. That is what happened to 2nd Edition. And once more to point out the ridiculous notion that D&D would all be online run by a computer. D&D and ALL role-playing be it Munchkin, Kalamar, White Wolf, Call of Cthulhu, or even Big Eyes, Small Mouth (a RPG based off of Japanese Anime) you will ALWAYS need a human game master. A computer cannot adjudicate someone's imagination. And one last note that I have tried to fight over and over on this board. Why can't we all get along? You think the rule-set determines if it is role-playing or not? There are hundreds of rule-sets out there. And calling 3rd, 4th, or the unknown 5th, edition of D&D a bastardization? Wake up, smell the present. 2nd edition "support" died over a decade ago. I am not telling you to stop playing or enjoying to play 2nd edition, but really your vitriolic against further editions is just childish and makes you come off as a crotchety old-ass. Stop waving your monster manual at the kids walking across your lawn. 1E and 2E support from WotC and Ha$bro yes, but thanks to "retro clones", the older editions of D&D are not dead; games such as C&C, S&W, OSRIC, et al. I've scanned the 3E manuals, and I find that WotC did not in fact "simplify" D&D; all they did was combine AD&D and D&D to a single product, which was OK, but then they added all these tables covering almost every aspect of the game in which in previous editions, the DM used his/her own intelligence and knowledge about his/her campaign to make the appropriate judgment. The DM pretty much becomes a dice rolling machine when a player wants his/her PC to perform a specific action, rather than having the DM give a quick decision based on the DM's knowledge in order to keep the game moving along at an adequate pace. Having to continually look up tables for die rolls only serves to bog down a game, and I do speak from experience about this issue. Furthermore, WotC decides to get rid of PC limitations, which forced a party of PCs to cooperate to survive, and give them numerous powers that gives the PCs an unfair advantage IMO. True adventure involves a very high risk of death. In other words, players should expect less than half their PCs to survive even to moderate levels. Almost all AD&D players I know have a number of pre-rolled PCs because of that fact. In older editions of D&D, even high level PCs die during adventures with "disturbing" regularity. That's the reason why the players I played with got such a feeling of satisfaction after a successful adventure; their PCs cheated Death at every turn even though Death had the upper hand in all cases. Having your PC do something in an adventure that he/she should rightly be killed is the essence of the game and what makes it so fun; that's what my experience as a D&Der taught me.
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Post by drednot57 on Jan 18, 2011 11:15:35 GMT -6
Dude, put down the LSD and back away slowly. There will not be a computer DM until the day they create artificial intelligence. Right now a computer can barely play Jeopardy. ...or some of us got trolled majorly.
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mathus
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Post by mathus on Jan 19, 2011 13:11:20 GMT -6
I've scanned the 3E manuals, and I find that WotC did not in fact "simplify" D&D; all they did was combine AD&D and D&D to a single product, which was OK, but then they added all these tables covering almost every aspect of the game in which in previous editions, the DM used his/her own intelligence and knowledge about his/her campaign to make the appropriate judgment. The DM pretty much becomes a dice rolling machine when a player wants his/her PC to perform a specific action, rather than having the DM give a quick decision based on the DM's knowledge in order to keep the game moving along at an adequate pace. Having to continually look up tables for die rolls only serves to bog down a game, and I do speak from experience about this issue. I have DMed editions all the way back to the 2nd Edition and currently DM 4th Edition. I have played since there was a "red book", "blue book", and "teal book". (My teal book stayed with Niemz when I moved away.) The red, blue, and teal were 2nd Edition Basic Rules released in 1983. (See link for chronology. www.waynesbooks.com/dungeonsdragons.html ) But now back to your argument above. Tables. I open up my 3.5 editions of D&D and thought about posting the tables here but really it was just a lot of redundancy. Their tables are like any of the games tables. Tables of levels, class powers, how much XP to level up, and so forth. Where you "might" need to look at a table would be to see if an action left you open to attack. It was a new rule and thus it needed to be better defined. 4th Edition streamlined the Attack of Opportunity rule but it was pretty confusing at first. I could go on but since you start by saying you only scanned the manual I could just be making shit up and I don't have the energy to argue against something you don't know. The end comment of you speaking from experience, well I am not sure what experience scanning a manual gave you. I can only assume you played without reading the rules or you are talking about a different game. And even with all the tables and all the rules in the world, there is still rules zero and my players respect that. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rule%200Now for lethality. Furthermore, WotC decides to get rid of PC limitations, which forced a party of PCs to cooperate to survive, and give them numerous powers that gives the PCs an unfair advantage IMO. True adventure involves a very high risk of death. In other words, players should expect less than half their PCs to survive even to moderate levels. Almost all AD&D players I know have a number of pre-rolled PCs because of that fact. In older editions of D&D, even high level PCs die during adventures with "disturbing" regularity. That's the reason why the players I played with got such a feeling of satisfaction after a successful adventure; their PCs cheated Death at every turn even though Death had the upper hand in all cases. Having your PC do something in an adventure that he/she should rightly be killed is the essence of the game and what makes it so fun; that's what my experience as a D&Der taught me. This argument I will actually agree with you. But in 4th Edition not 3rd Edition. 3rd Edition still has a lot of "save or die" spells, rules, and situations. 4th Edition on the other hand has made death a lot harder. But that is fine. 90% of the movies, books, stories, and other fictional stories out there you have the threat of violence and death but you KNOW Jason Borne is not going to die even if everyone around him does. But that is the nature of storytelling. You build up the backstory, give your protagonist motivation, and he finishes the mission. If he dies and you have to bring another character, what is his motivation to continue the quest? Why doesn't he just say, "I am not emotionally invested and that guy before just got his head split open. Fuck that I'm out." and go home? You want the heroes of the story to continue. But that is a storytelling choice and one that the vast majority of us choose is the Hero is extremely tough or impossible to kill. Or Like in Niemz realm, the greatest heroes seemed to die comicboook deaths. We traveled to hell to rescue my dead mage character Mathus. We have had Gods resurrect former great heroes like the knight Winston. And one of my characters was even reincarnated years after he had died and been retired and I came back as a level 1 fighter born back into the family I had left behind. Now you can flip that. You can make a story based on the Game of Thrones instead. And you just let your players know that up front that it will be a lethal storyline. You create a background or motivation that will intrigue multiple different people and then you as a DM go on a killing spree. To do this in 4th Edition you would do things like removing some or most of the Healing Surges (the ability players have to heal themselves from damage), make them die on 2 or even 1 failed save on death throws (the roll they make when reduced to zero HP to see if they die), and just basically beef up the monsters damage. But the fact remains the same. The game is only as lethal or as carebear as you make it. That is YOUR storytelling power as a DM. The rules give you a suggestion and then it is up to you to decide how you want to play them. Rule zero my friend, rule zero. You don't use it enough if you feel any edition constrains you.
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Niemz
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Post by Niemz on Mar 16, 2011 10:40:43 GMT -6
I have played since there was a "red book", "blue book", and "teal book". (My teal book stayed with Niemz when I moved away.) That's because we still play real D&D here!
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